well this is a cool project by @fishinthecalculator ! aims to combine guix, goblins, and hoot to make a yunohost-like application. https://fishinthecalculator.me/fortino.html
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Discussion
@dthompson This is the grail of declarative configuration, to me. Well done, @fishinthecalculator!
@civodul @dthompson @fishinthecalculator a cheap self-hosted mail server, chat server, and mailing list server as a service is something people need.
@pjotrprins Do they? Whoever self-hosts still has to deal with server maintenance. Spam, DOS attacks, etc. Are there really so many people who can deal with that but are not self-hosting because software installation and updates are holding them back?
@khinsen That’s the goal of projects like YunoHost: making self-hosting feasible for someone who doesn’t have a PhD in GNU/Linux/Postfix/nginx/whatever sysadmin nor the will to invest large amounts of time in day-to-day maintenance.
@khinsen @civodul @dthompson @fishinthecalculator no one said it was easy. I am running mail servers since 1998 or so ;). But we sure can make it easier, especially with a VPS provider.
@pjotrprins I am all for it! I am just wondering where the bottlenecks are in practice. My own self-hosting experiments all ended when I was fed up with looking at server logs to diagnose various failures or attacks.
@civodul@toot.aquilenet.fr @khinsen@scholar.social @pjotrprins@mastodon.social @dthompson@toot.cat I think this is pretty much the point. To self host complex software stacks there will be always some kind of technical knowledge requirements, even stuff we might consider easy (such as the concept of domain names and DNS).
The point of projects like Fortino and Yunohost is to lower the bar as much as possible, in your example one could maybe look at logs through a web interface instead of having to grep stuff around.
In my experience there is a set of small organizations that have a strong need for a self managed infrastructure, maybe because they are climate justice orgs doing civil disobedience or labor unions, but for many reasons they struggle to keep volounteer highly technical people engaged enough to have a sustainable quality of service. So they end up using Big Tech, not because they want but because the tech usability bar is too high
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