Andrew Tropin
@abcdw@fosstodon.org  路  activity timestamp 6 days ago

This is my third time in last 15 years I face issues with RSI. Do you have any tips on how to make the situation better and have less pain?

For the context: I'm on dvorak layout and have jis keyboard with heavy use of thumbs. 8 years ago I switched from evil to vanilla Emacs keybindings.

I also have a wanderer constraint at the moment: I have only one backpack for all my belongings.

https://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/871c3dacf82a8153a405ad41ff63b751

#keyboard #health #rsi #emacs
馃崚馃尦 Hartmut Goebel
@kirschwipfel@nerdculture.de  路  activity timestamp 5 days ago

Some random remarks, which might not fit your situation:
- Try getting a larger table, where height can be adjusted easily, and a chair with arm-rests. If you are at a customer's site, urge them to give you a good working place. You are an expert and not willed to work under bad conditions.
- For Emacs, xah Lee has developed an more ergonomic base layout (according to his words), which has also been adjusted for non-qwerty layouts (e.g. Dvorak, de-neo2).
- if you don't have an external monitor attached, a foldable laptop stand (and an external keyboard) bring the monitor into a better position. (I have a simple, basically a thick wire.)
- as others already wrote: a split ortholinear keyboard with thump keys helps a lot. I had a ErgoDox and now have a Glove80 (which connects via Bluetooth, is lightweight, but a bit height for carrying)
- maybe try light keys with short travel (my keyboards' travel is too long IMHO).

HTH and good health
@abcdw
Mr Cool
@mrcool@social.tchncs.de  路  activity timestamp 5 days ago
@abcdw
1. Start using talon.
https://talonvoice.com/
Talon also supports the Tobii eye tracker. So you could use your computer without using your hands at all. A good mic is needed. Join the Slack.

2. Read "It's not carpal tunnel syndrome", to learn what RSI is and how it can be treated.

3. Learn how to do trigger point massage. There are several ways to do it. For me ischemic compression was the most valuable.
Could be that this may not help you, but it doesn't do any harm unless you violently squeeze your muscles.
And it's great to have this knowledge because you can treat any aching muscle with it. Got back pain? Quickly treat the cramped muscle and the back pain is gone in no time.

My RSI was so severe that I couldn't hold a cup.

#rsi #talon #triggerpoints
Mr Cool
@mrcool@social.tchncs.de  路  activity timestamp 4 days ago
@abcdw Talon is absolutely great. Without it, I would have had huge problems. It takes some time to get used to. But it's not that hard. It uses a special alphabet so that each character can be distinguished better ('air bat cap' for 'abc'). Once you get used to this, it's getting difficult to spell the normal way. :)
It's also completely configurable. You can easily create your own commands, even depending on the active window.
Just try it out even if you don't have a good mic yet. Even if it won't understand everything you say, it will give you a good understanding of how talon works. You can still buy a better mic later.

On my phone I use FUTO voice input.
kby
@6b6279@freiburg.social  路  activity timestamp 5 days ago
@abcdw I have a ganglion on my left wrist and some signs of early CTS, changing my keyboard layout had no effect; although using Caps as another Ctrl key has definitely reduced thumb pain.

One thing that really helped is using a keyboard cushion. A soft round gel thing you can put on front of your keyboard. Pushing your wrists directly into the desk directly strains your CT. Monitor position is also important.

Split keyboard is probably a good idea too, although that only works if you touch type by the book. I personally type one extra column with my left hand and that makes it very difficult to switch to a split keyboard.
Zenie
@Zenie@piaille.fr  路  activity timestamp 6 days ago
@abcdw

In addition to all the rest, I would say go with a contour board. An old kinesis advantage saved me.

Flat Ortho linear splits like the moon lander are too big unless you have big hands. Lose the outer columns and the number row. 34 keys, 4 of them for thumbs, is plenty and will reduce hand contortions.

For split contours bastard keyboards has nice ones.

The last thing, is palm rests. Like the kenisis. On one of those, once my hands are on the board they don't move, only my fingers move.

Ergonomics doesn't end when you buy a split Ortholinear keyboard.

Home row mods, one shot symbol layer, a number and nav laver. Something better than Dvorak
Jayesh Bhoot
@bhoot@mastodon.pub.solar  路  activity timestamp 6 days ago
@abcdw a few pointers from personal experience:

- Make sure medically that its RSI. I had stupidly misdiagnosed my symptoms as RSI but which had turned out to be a severe deficiency in vitamin B12 or D3.

- I cannot stress on the importance of daily exercise, good posture enough. Sitting in the same posture for too long is a problem. I keep moving around.

- I pull my hands off keyboard mouse when I am not typing.

- I don't rigidly keep my fingers on the home row. I also type slowly.

(1/3)
Jayesh Bhoot
@bhoot@mastodon.pub.solar  路  activity timestamp 6 days ago
@abcdw

Accessibility aids (high effort, low cost, high return):

- Ensure as fewer mouse clicks (which causes strain on wrist nerves I guess) as possible with a Hover to Click feature. GNOME has it built-in. KMousetool is a cross-platform option. But both are X11-only. This accessibility aid is a regression in Wayland.

- Use sticky keys to reduce modifier key gymnastics to a minimum.

- Less typing, more autocompletion.

- I would make emacs modifier-less with a plugin like devil-mode.

(2/3)
Jayesh Bhoot
@bhoot@mastodon.pub.solar  路  activity timestamp 6 days ago
@abcdw

Hardware aids:

- I found that keyboards with *low* key travel distance were more comfortable for me. Key travel of about 1-1.5mm. Macbook keyboard (1mm), HP Elitebook 845 (1.5mm).

- A vertical mouse keeps the mouse holding hand in a natural posture.

- Using the touchpad as less as possible, substituting it with a vertical mouse + hover to click, helped me a lot. Very anecdotal, but true in my case.

(3/3)
www-gem
@wwwgem@social.linux.pizza  路  activity timestamp 6 days ago
@abcdw I won't be innovative by recommending a split keyboard as well (tilted keyboard is even more ergonomic). I personaly built a low profile corne one and spent quite some time to define my own layout based on qwerty because I went with only 36 keys.
In addition, I would recommend a vertical mouse at least, or a trackball (thumb or finger one it's your choice).
Finally, something too often overlooked: your sitting position and arms/wrists alignment with your hardware.
If you're interested I wrote some posts about my keyboard and trackball: https://www-gem.codeberg.page
oxo
@oxo@qoto.org  路  activity timestamp 6 days ago
@abcdw
@abcdw
For me center body alignment is critical; so when using a mouse I place it in the middle of my split keyboard.
I think only technical solutions will not solve your problem.

Many usage philosophies don't want the hands off the keyboard and instead keep the hands in a fixated position as much as possible. This is no natural behaviour for the body, which is build to move. Try to at least find a middle ground regarding these philosophies.

Feel your body and differentiate between micro movements (i.e. mouse), typing and bigger macro movement involving other work when stress gets to a certain level.

Make a habit of stretching and do weight and or resistance training regularly. Last tip: the book Desk Bound by Kelly Starrett.
https://thereadystate.com/product/deskbound-standing-up-to-a-sitting-world/

I hope you can redice your pain. Good luck!
Gene Goykhman
@genegoykhman@mastodon.social  路  activity timestamp 6 days ago
@abcdw hi Andrew. 3 quick suggestions:

- people have already mentioned split keyboards and this has definitely helped me
- Prot has a good blog series on how he found and set up a split mech keyboard that has helped resolve his RSI issues https://protesilaos.com/keeb/2024-04-29-why-i-picked-iris-keyboard/
- I wear a soft glove while doing heavy mousing (which aggravates my wrist). It take getting used to but helps a lot https://www.arthritis.org/partnership/ease-of-use-products/imak-smartglove
BB :verified_cool:
@BryanBennett@tilde.zone  路  activity timestamp 6 days ago
@abcdw: I have NO evidence that this is what fixed it for me, but compact ortho keebs were the last ones I bought before my pinky and wrist pain subsided. I have been using ortholinear boards since (split and not) and everything is copacetic these days.

I'm a big fan of Planck or Nyquist/Levinson boards (40% ortho. Planck is unified. Nyquist/Levinson are split). I'm even using QWERTY, but with a heavily thumb oriented layout that emphasizes moving clusters of similar keys to their own layers (and reusing those layers when they make sense ergonomically and the keys fit).

Again: this is all based only on my experience and is 100% subjective, but maybe try a small & cheap ortholinear board?